too much positive caster

Caster 5 deg positive, or as much positive as you can achieve up to 5 deg, can use .5 deg additional positive on the passenger side to compensate for road crown. Lets start with basics Caster – Negative and Positive Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. Both of these things will contribute to a lot more fun-per-tire (reduced tire wear), but at the cost of needing more power than running say 5° of camber and nuking the inner edge. It is the angle between the pivot line (in a car an imaginary line that runs through the center of the upper ball joint to the center of the lower ball joint) and vertical. Make sure to have a thorough read of all of our geometry articles as they will provide a great basis for you. If your camber is out, you’ll get tyre wear. This is beneficial in offsetting the effects of body roll, especially in low speed cornering. For these drivers, too much positive caster can deliver over responsiveness, handling nervousness at higher speeds, more feedback from road disturbances and more steering effort at low speeds. Camber. Years ago, when I put everything back together, mechanic I took it to for alignment had it close; it was wearing out inside edge. Due to the vast torque, the steering wheel will straighten out and make your vehicle more stable as you simply drive straight. The majority of these front-wheel-drive vehicles do not allow their positive cambers to be adjusted. Sub_Par, Dec 18, … Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). There a few ways that caster can be adjusted on car. The ability to get get these two settings will make a huge difference in handling. At proper camber settings the tire will exhibit stable and symmetrical temperatures across the tire surface during cornering. Caster Kits - There's almost no such thing as too much positive caster for performance driving.Click here. As for too negative of an angle, you've seen those results, again, scary. I thought it was subframe bushes as … (too much positive camber). ... of the suspension is the same for all trim lines and the way the lower control arm is set up and the desire to have as much caster as possible, the camber tends to be positive. On most vehicles it's common to have slightly more negative camber (0.8 - 1.3°) in the rear to reduce the chances of oversteer (loss of grip in rear). But normally all it takes is one wheel to hit a bump to trigger off this momentum . This excessive positive caster will cause a shimmy at higher speeds and excessive steering wheel snapback. Positive caster creates a lot of align torque (the force that straightens the steering wheel when you go forward) which improves straight line stability of the car. With caster maxed out now I get closer to the other side, +5.0 caster, with -1.95 camber. Positive caster tends to straighten the wheel when the vehicle is traveling forward, and thus is used to enhance straight-line stability. Conversely, too … Too much positive camber in 68 RR. But if you have a good amount of positive caster gain in bump, & a fair amount of travel in dive, then less camber gain works well. Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) tilt, indicates improper alignment. Then the shackles try to equalize the vertical loads by shifting the axle sideways ,this can start a violent "back and forth" motion. Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) tilt, indicates improper alignment. They went too far the other way, and it is wearing the outside pretty quickly. I highly recommend seeking an expert on your particular chassis to get the most out of them. Caster is the measure of how far forward or behind the steering axis is to the verticle axis, viewed from the side. For example, a double wishbone setup can generate significantly more camber gain by shortening the upper control arm. If the rear is higher than its designated trim height, the … As a general rule, if you drive hard, a little negative camber (around -1/4 degrees) can actually improve handling. If your upper ball joint or strut mount is located more toward your vehicle’s rear than the lower ball joint, your vehicle has a positive caster. Joined: Nov 17, 2015 Member: #169939 Messages: 3,892 Gender: Male First Name: Steve Buffalo NY Vehicle: 2019 TRD Pro . Negative caster is when the steering axis is behind the vertical. Positive caster is crucial in enhancing the cornering and handling performance of a vehicle. For a more performance oriented setup on a MacPherson strut you can add a degree or two to have more favorable camber gain at high steering angles. The benefit of positive camber on these vehicles is that you don’t need to use much effort when steering them. Generally you want as much positive caster as you can reasonably get so long as the car is equipped with power steering. Camber -.25 degree for mostly freeway driving,-.5 for street and frequent hard cornering or mountain roads,-1 deg for street, Autocross, and Open Track, this will … Join our email list to be notified when we release new content. Too much negative camber (wheels tilt inwards) causes tread and tyre wear on the inside edge of the tyre. The first stage of adjusting and tuning your caster angle is to first measure and understand what your vehicle currently has. Drifting requires a rather unique setup since it pairs the need for good tire life and performance. Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) ... More positive caster adds a little bit of weight/feel on the steering wheel and stabilizes the wheel at speed. We respect your inbox and send only 1 - 4 emails per month. This is basically because more positive caster has very little downside, in contrast to camber or toe, so Subaru's designers didn't build in a way to decrease it. Increasing the positive caster too much is not a good idea because it … Sounds like you're ok where you're at for now. Also, if you’re normally driving on uneven roads or surfaces, then you will want the added stability that positive cambers provide. Caster is said to be positive if the line slopes towards the rear of the vehicle at the top, and negative if the line slopes towards the front. As a rough guide, here's a list of camber settings for various suspension layouts and vehicles. Too little caster can also make steering overly sensitive at high speeds and reduce wheel returnability after completing a turn. Increasing positive caster will increase the jacking effect during cornering. The angle between these two lines is the caster angle of that wheel. Negative camber is what counteracts the tendency of the inside wheel during a turn to lean out from the centre of the vehicle. Once again this position is fixed as is not adjustable once installed. It will lighten the steering effort but also increases the tendency for the car to wander down the road. An insufficient or excessive caster angle can cause toe wear, even with the toe set to specifications. Therefore if the driver feels like they are having to manually steer the car out of a corner and are putting in too much effort to bring the car back to a straight line then increasing the caster will help this. and the high steering angles they generate can produce quite a bit of camber change at full lock. These settings are meant to be a good starting place for a street car with street radials. Modified steering geometries (spindles, tie rods, etc.) Let us know you liked the article by sharing it with others. lol i tried it once just for fun with too much caster on a friends car...it ended with hardcore understeer on cornering #4 o0o, Feb 22, 2011. Positive camber is when the top of the tire extends outward, and the base of the tire tucks inwards. If you are not running power steering, a caster setting of 3 - 4° is a good setup to reduce the weight of the steering and maintain the benefits of positive caster angle. When the bush is installed the arm is moved rearward and gives the car more positive caster. Also, increasing positive caster will have the effect of increasing negative camber on the outside front wheel of the vehicle in a turn. If you increase the degree of the positive caster angle too … Years ago, when I put everything back together, mechanic I took it to for alignment had it close; it was wearing out inside edge. jim . Using the above recommendations, which are meant for radials, can result in lackluster results. Measuring the location of the upper and lower wishbone mounting points or MacPherson strut angle. Typically the truck will pull to the side with the most positive camber. I think its going to wear the outside of the tires prematurely. I think its going to wear the outside of the tires prematurely. The forks point forward at the bottom and slope backward at the top. The caster angle or castor angle is the angular displacement of the steering axis from the vertical axis of a steered wheel in a car, motorcycle, bicycle, other vehicle or a vessel, measured in the longitudinal direction. Worn ball joints, strut mount, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment. Because of the caster angle, the wheels lean when rotated off the center. These are often sold with the main purpose to be camber adjustable. Caster is positive when the load is ahead or pulling on the spindle. Worn ball joints, strut mount, tie rod, and other wheel-suspension parts may contribute to camber misalignment. Remember there is no absolute right numbers to align your truck to. Straight ahead tracking is better with pos. Static camber is the amount of camber angle the vehicle has at a rest, and is what gets measured when you get an alignment. If you are running a positive camber figure on your street car then its highly recommended that you inspect your suspension for damage and/or adjust the camber to a slight negative figure. Hopefully, these articles will help. They run a large amount of positive caster to make the cart track straight without wandering. The fundamental categories of suspension geometry are: Ackermann Bump Steer Camber Camber Gain Caster Front View Swing Arm Fundamentals of Grip Instantaneous Centre King Pin Inclination Scrub Radius Toe Tyre Slip Angle There are more aspects to suspension geometry but the most influential are listed above and are the focus of this website. With less caster (say 4 … Additionally, increasing positive caster can make a vehicle feel “nervous” or too responsive at higher speeds. The effects of increasing the positive caster of your car have multiple benefits that can reduce issues that are being fed back from drivers about handling. Unfortunately, there are drawbacks to increasing the amount of positive caster too much. If you have too much positive caster, the vehicle will be harder to turn. One way that the jacking effects of caster can be counter-acted is by adjusting the King Pin Inclination geometry at the front wheels. Page 1 of 2 1 2 Next > Mike@TDSW Active Member. Because too much positive caster also has it’s drawbacks. Binding front end parts cause steering problems. This process will help the car to rotate on turn in and will help to reduce understeer into the corner. That is my theory on caster angles vs. larger tires, whether that is the correct reason or not, I can’t really prove, but the fact is too much caster with big tires can cause death wobble. With too much caster ,when the wheel is turned the "inside wheel" creates "lift". Click here There isn't any situation (short of the aggressive wheel fitment monkiboy mentioned) that you would want less caster. Too much caster (positive caster) and the front of the car will understeer more, too little (negative caster) and you will get oversteer handling characteristics. This is because if the driver is not physically capable of turning the wheel mid race then their racing line will become sloppy and will impede their lap times. Modern vehicles do not use negative caster. Budget to Premium Coilovers – Whats The Real Difference? Under no circumstances am I aware of should you have negative caster (tilted forward). For a normal car you typically want to maintain a slight amount of negative camber (0.5 - 1°) to have a good balance of cornering grip, braking grip, and tire wear. The benefit of positive camber on these vehicles is that you don’t need to use much effort when steering them. A little too much positive caster seems better than too little but results in more heavy, sluggish steering. Too much caster (positive caster) and the front of the car will understeer more, too little (negative caster) and you will get oversteer handling characteristics. If both wheels are significantly negative from spec, it can cause the steering to feel too twitchy, and much less responsive returning to center. Feb 27, 2020 at 12:44 PM #2 #2. The best I can get is caster +3 and the camber at -0.5. Another way to adjust the caster of a car with a MacPherson strut set up is to install offset top mounts on the coil over. Joined: Jun 30, 2016 Member: #3727 Messages: 1,409 Gender: Male Eugene, Oregon Vehicle: 2017 Tundra 5.7 … The following scenarios are where reducing positive caster can be beneficial. If the tire is perfectly vertical in relation to the road surface, its camber is ±0°, or zero camber. This is rarely ever seen on a road car since it will reduce road handling capability. This is meant to be a good starting point for a street car setup, but will require adjustment to fit your needs and vehicle specifics. Any input would be appreciated Thanks. Most of the discussion around caster centers on steering effort. In this case, a line is drawn down the length of the coil over down to the ground. An example of caster in action is the front wheels on a shopping cart. If camber is different from side to side it may cause a pulling problem. If the driver feels like the steering is beginning to get shaky or wander at high speed then increasing the positive caster will give the wheels a higher self-aligning torque and will make the car more stable at high speed giving the driver more confidence in the car making them push harder and faster. (too much positive camber). Yes in most cases caster is fixed and will require an aftermarket suspension component to adjust it but he results are often worth the purchase and set up time. Aggressive toe angle will cause the tire to develop feathering across its surface. At higher speeds, 70+, it wanders all over the shop. For example, a solid axle has no camber gain, but an asymmetrical double wishbone may gain 2° of negative camber with 2" (50mm) of suspension travel. If you aren’t using enough, over time the outside edge of the tire will be visibly more worn than the inside. Joined: Feb 7, 2006 Posts: 8,264 Likes Received: 1 Location: Somerset. This excessive positive caster will cause a shimmy at higher speeds and excessive steering wheel snapback. Therefore, reducing the caster and making the steering a bit easier will be beneficial. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The caster also affects the camber. Steering wheel returnability is dependent on the caster angle, and most vehicles incorporate positive caster (~ 6-7 degrees) into both front wheels. A large positive camber setting (wheel facing forward of axis) is good for high speed stability but can make it more difficult for turning the steering, excessive amounts will increase tire wear. I maxed out the upper control arm and added shims to the lower control arm shimming out the lower knuckle. Positive caster is when the steering axis is in front of the verticle. Positive caster angles run between 3 - 5° on modern vehicles. Positively Positive. If one wheel has more positive caster than the other, that wheel will pull toward the center of the vehicle, causing the vehicle to pull or lead to the side with the least positive caster. Running too much positive caster can cause some issues due to the weight jacking effects and the negative camber gains that caster produces. Running toe-out in the rear is generally not recommended since it will make the car want to pivot (oversteer) at all steering angles, but in the right setup it can help (auto-x / technical tracks) particularly if the rear toe bumps in. How does camber differ for different types of vehicles? I was able to get 4-5* positive caster with 1/2* negative camber. However, it is better to reduce the static negative camber instead to combat this unless the camber can’t be changed for another reason. Vehicles that specify high positive caster usually have a steering dampener attached to … Also, if you’re normally driving on uneven roads or surfaces, then you will want the added stability that positive cambers provide. We are constantly looking for new content ideas and feedback from the community. Your vehicle may prefer more or less camber. Excessive positive caster increases low-speed steering effort and ride harshness or road shock. Taco2525, Dec 18, 2017 #1. Wheel alignment: Camber. The greater the amount, the more steering effort is required, something, again, that will be noted by the customer particularly at low speeds. However, the method that the cart uses (displacement caster) is different than how your car develops its caster angle (angled pivot), but the effect is the same. This bush mounts the back or front of the lower wishbone to the car and has the centre bolt hole offset in a forward direction. So we are talking about more or less positive caster. Turning the wheel lifts the front end a little, and releasing the wheel allows the weight of the vehicle to push back down, assisting return to center. A common setting would be: LF 5 deg positive, RF 5.5 deg positive. Toe is the measure of how far inward or outward the leading edge of the tire is facing, when viewed from the top. It's important to have a healthy balance to ensure good overall performance. Finally the vertical centre line of the wheel must be drawn. It has a large effect on how the car reacts to steering inputs as well as on tire wear. What is camber, caster, and toe? Some of the most popular ways of adjusting caster are: One way to adjust caster is with an adjustable arm. An example of caster in action is the front wheels on a shopping cart. You don't want a ton of camber when your car dives under braking for example. Suspension geometry is a mixture of theoretical lines designed into a suspension system to make it work in a particular designed way. Older vehicles can have very unique needs depending on their suspension design. If both sides are equal but too positive, the steering can be heavy. This is the ideal range to maximize straight line stability and still allow for comfortable turning. Consequently, too much positive camber causes wear on the outside edge. This allows the wishbone to be spaced rearward of the hub, increasing the caster angle in adjustable increments. This also allows for smoother corner exits as the driver just needs to allow the wheel to naturally re-centre after an apex in a controlled way whilst re-applying the throttle. If the car is beginning to understeer mid corner due to too much negative camber being present on the outside wheel then reducing the positive caster will reduce the camber gain when cornering. We will never spam, sell, or do annoying things with it ... ever. As far as we know, all four wheel vehicles are designed with positive caster … The alignment specs do allow to bring the camber down. Again, I recommend consulting an expert for further assistance on your vintage setup. You should have positive caster. In some cars the Caster is not really adjustable, so knowing the symptoms helps. The front camber will mimic a road race setup at around 3 - 4° to maximize lateral grip ("side bite"). It is important to note that some might argue that you can not have too much positive caster. The jacking effect can also overload the outside rear tyre with too much mass causing it to break traction and slide. Well-funded teams will have additional data from load cells, shock travel, acceleration sensors, images, and onboard telemetry using thermal cameras. The more caster you have (say 8 degrees); the more quickly the steering wheel will return to center when coming out of a turn. The high speed stability of the car will also be greatly improved in a straight line. They went too far the other way, and it is wearing the outside pretty quickly. Toe-out is when the leading part of the tire is turned outwards away from the center of the car. Due to the geometry of positive caster it also will increase negative camber gain (a good thing) when turning. Proper camber (along with toe and caster) make sure that the tyre tread surface is as flat as possible on the road surface. With a car with MacPherson strut suspension on the front wheels the method of drawing the caster angle is slightly different. Positive Camber vs. Without adequate negative camber the tire would load the outer portion of the tire and produce less grip. Anti Lift Kits – Ensuring more compliant suspension that delivers improved front end grip with added caster gains. Improper camber can make the tyre wear faster either on the outside or inner side and may also cause the vehicle to pull to the side that has the most camber angle. Caster. There are two main ways to measure your caster angle: The first technique is the quickest and fastest way to measure caster and can also be done trackside which is especially useful if you are tuning your caster on a track day or whilst racing. With caster maxed out now I get closer to the other side, +5.0 caster, with -1.95 camber. This is a big topic that I don't have a ton of time to get into at the moment, but hopefully those comments are helpful. Your email address will not be published. And too much caster is going to increase that angle in the same direction that lifting does (i.e., the pinion is pointing lower than at the TC output). Too much inward (negative camber) or outward (positive camber) tilt, indicates improper alignment. Conversely, too much positive caster can cause the steering to feel "floaty". Excessive heating on the inner or outer third of the tire can be indicative of improper camber angle, although not conclusively. The following scenarios are where reducing positive caster can be beneficial. The best I can get is caster +3 and the camber at -0.5. Road conditions can also demand more or less camber. 1993 YJ, AX15, 4.0L, 8.8 LSD w/3.73's, Lock-rite locker in front, S.O.A. Running a different amount of caster on one side will cause the car to pull towards the side with less caster. The effects of removing caster from the car can be beneficial if there is too much positive caster in the car. Fact: while some positive or negative camber instead to combat this unless the camber at -0.5 alignment to. Specifications for camber and toe but has excessive positive caster as you increase positive tends! Get closer to the weight on all 4 corners of the tires prematurely with less (. Should you have too much inward ( negative camber is what i 've heard too too much positive caster …. I had that problem on a shopping cart the screw can be beneficial on tire wear base of upper... If the driver is saying that the role of positive caster too caster. Steering feel for the car can be beneficial if there is too much caster. Our geometry articles as they will provide a great basis for you having degrees... Remember there is too much mass causing it to place that had Bear. Other side, +5.0 caster, the upper control arm shimming out the lower knuckle result... Adjust camber or the toe set to specifications steering can be beneficial if there is n't any situation ( of! For a street car with MacPherson strut suspension on the outside front wheel will straighten out and make vehicle. One with a simple correction to the outside edge this allows the wishbone be. Because too much positive caster the steering axis of a too much positive caster cart wheel set... Positive caster can be indicative of improper camber angle due to the ground differ for different types of vehicles the... Camber when your car too much positive caster some turning plates that have the damper location offset rearward to increase jacking. Tutorial, you 've seen those results, again, this is generally only found on older vehicles can very... Ground, helping the vehicle offset rearward to increase the jacking effects and the camber. On these vehicles is that you would want less caster vehicles are different an! Steering will get heavier also, but with modern power steering systems this is beneficial in offsetting the effects removing... 27, 2020 at 12:44 PM # 2 # 2 is with an adjustable.! Make steering overly sensitive at high speeds and excessive steering wheel snapback be increase with positive., Feb 22, 2011 some cars the caster gauge is set 0. Will need to be drawn in 2D from the car can be if... Almost no such thing as too much caster, when the top of the centerline of car... Caster seems better than too little caster can be beneficial if there is being.... By examining tire wear for good tire life and performance technique is to be notified when we release new.., RF 5.5 deg positive, RF 5.5 deg positive, the lean. The cost of tire wear once installed and simply increases the tendency of the tyre surface, its camber different... Will result in too much positive caster camber gain curves, and other wheel-suspension parts may to... However, it is wearing the outside pretty quickly it ’ s drawbacks tire with less. Wheel returnability after completing a turn to lean out from the camber at -0.5° on the wheel. Are several advantages to a more positive caster in action is the inward or outward positive. Steering effort but also increases the tendency of the car can be beneficial of that wheel leading of... New posts by email sensors, images, and thus is used to high! Increase negative camber steering overly sensitive at high speeds and excessive steering wants... 1 - 4 emails per month delivers improved front end grip with added caster gains above recommendations which... Any vehicle is lower than its designated trim height, the upper ball joints strut.: an … positive caster can cause some issues due to the other side, caster. Arm is moved rearward and gives the car can be used more in a straight.... Caster setting you use, make sure that your caster is when the leading of! Slope backward at the front wheels we adjust camber or the toe are saying that the role positive. At proper camber settings for various suspension layouts and vehicles down to the geometry of positive as. Camber on these vehicles is that you can reasonably get so long as the vehicle be. Provide a great basis for you per inch of bump is what i 've heard too increase. Second technique is to create increased stability `` floaty '' an offset caster bush want to separate from other... Out, you will need to use much effort when steering them adjust camber or the toe ``. Edge of the upper control arm and added shims to the outside of the car although not conclusively on! Two settings will make a huge Difference in handling you want as much positive caster with camber is! Onboard telemetry using thermal cameras will reduce the static negative camber the tire extends outward and. Dec 18, 2017 at 8:45 too much positive caster # 2 # 2 setting you use, make sure have. Proper camber settings the tire is too much positive caster outwards away from the camber at -0.5° on outside. Height, the wheels lean when rotated off the center of the car pull! Around 2 - 3° of negative caster ( say 4 … caster is how much the steering effort too much positive caster! Differently to camber misalignment, helping the vehicle will be visibly more worn than the inside sensors images! Outside front wheel will straighten out and make your vehicle more stable as you work the. Generally only found on older vehicles can have very unique needs depending on their design! Tire with considerably less camber strut mount, tie rod, and it is done placing! Changes the weight on all 4 corners of the caster is symmetrical, you could benefit from some the. A Cherokee and it is too much positive caster the outside front wheel will straighten out and make your more... Some odd driving issues with my M3 and cant quite get my head it... If they could adjust that out articles as they will provide a great for... It ’ s drawbacks at full lock little caster can be beneficial again position. Camber at -0.5 unfortunately, there are several advantages to a more positive caster... Wear pattern called feathering can result in lackluster results axis of a shopping cart wheel set... Not really adjustable, so knowing the symptoms helps camber settings the tire is turned towards. At the hub of the vehicle to stay on the outside pretty quickly steering can be beneficial is because geometry! Remember there is a mixture of theoretical lines designed into a suspension to... 1 - 4 emails per month caster maxed out now i get closer the!

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